Why The Salvation Army Doesn’t Deserve Your Money
Every holiday season, people open their hearts and wallets for family, friends, and charities alike, including the Salvation Army. Unfortunately, some large organizations who regularly solicit for money are often using funds for political motives or ‘overhead’ costs. In a series of posts, we’ll be investigating three popular charities that don’t deserve your charity.
Everyone knows the Salvation Army. Whether it’s the secondhand goods at their thrift stores or their collection kettles outside department stores, the Salvation Army is ubiquitous to the holiday season.
However, the Salvation Army’s virulent opposition to gay rights both in public and through persistent legislative lobbying raises the question how donations intended for the needy are being spent. Many people forget that the Salvation Army is in fact an Evangelical church, and as such, it tends to have a hard-right social agenda.
In fact, the Salvation Army goes so far as to say gay people shouldn’t be having sex. You can find this nugget on their website: “Christians whose sexual orientation is primarily or exclusively same-sex are called upon to embrace celibacy as a way of life.”
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Starting at the beginning of George W. Bush’s presidency in 2001, the Salvation Army began lobbying for an exemption to equal labor practices for government-funded faith-based organizations. Why? Because the Salvation Army wanted to continue to discriminate against gays and prevent them from being hired.
In 2004, the Salvation Army threatened to close all its soup kitchens in the New York City area—which would have ended $250 million worth of contracts with the city—if they were forced to offer benefits to same-sex couples. This move would have lost the Salvation Army around $70 million in direct funding from the city and endangered the lives of several thousand people reliant on the Salvation Army.
Was this supposed to be a principled stand? All the homeless people receiving care from the Salvation Army would be turned out on the street. What would have motivated The Salvation Army to make such a callous move? They said that, by offering benefits to same sex couples, they’d be supporting HIV/AIDS because HIV/AIDS is only the product of homosexual intercourse.
AIDS? How does AIDS factor in? Oh yeah, I forgot! Gay people don’t suffer from non-gay sex related maladies. If a same sex couple needs health benefits, it must be from all that AIDS they’re spreading around. Is there any way to construe this as anything but bigotry?
I have exact figures for such a non-for-profit (that made $250,000 last year), organisation that is siphoning taxpayers monies from the government.
Since so many people are involved in this ‘money for mates’ rip off scam, it is VERY difficult to disassemble the administrative side as there is HUGE political support for these institutions, as the tax payers funds feed the bureaucrats.
corpau.blogspot.com
Off topic. This is about the Salvation Army.
The Salvation Army absolutely does NOT deserve your money. They are set up as a religion in and of themselves so that they don’t have to file a 990 tax form to disclose how much they spend on their programs vs. how much they make in profits per year. For that large of an organization it should be 85/15 at the least, but with how much the upper-ups make it is likely to hover around 60-65% put into charitable work.
I hate that they are the go-to organization in many areas because they have an egregious track record with abuses of power and refusal of services, even when required by law to not discriminate. There has been at least one person (Jennifer Gale) who has froze to death after repeatedly being denied an open spot in SA’s homeless shelters.
They are the worst of the worst.
It’s not appropriate to pass off your speculation as facts regarding what you think they do with their money (or hope they do, so you have more reason to hate a charity).
Jennifer Gale is not a good example at all to use. “S”he had every opportunity to take advantage of the shelter offered by the Salvation Army. Being a biological male obviously would have put her in the men’s shelter, which she refused. She wasn’t denied anything; she REFUSED. Big difference.
She refused to accept unacceptable accommodation, so it’s her fault and the S.A. is blameless. After all, you can’t possibly expect people to treat you as who and what you are, you have to allow them to treat you however they want.
That is the most disgusting rationalization I’ve heard in a long time.
GrowUP, you need to follow the advice of your user name.
The issue is not that she refused accommodation, but that she was refused ANY accommodation at all. Had she a bed available in Dallas at the SA there, she would not have moved on in search of refuge elsewhere. And, it is worth noting, would not have frozen to death in the street (on church grounds!) due to lack of safe sleeping spot.
He refused to accept shelter with men. They treated him as he was not as he saw himself. To ignore the facts is simply a rationalization of your personal views in an attempt to blame folks who offer shelter to the homeless.
Which or What is it, she or him? Is she a woman or is he a man? Our society; what is left of it anyway…only recognize a designation of man or woman…male and female; not shehim or himshe. The fact is…The accommodations were offered and were refused…WHY?
Male-to-female Transsexuals who are placed in male accommodations are subject to abuse by the other clients.
Shhhh…. you might confuse all of the twits trying to justify the worst sort of discrimination.
The SA is not “set up as a religion in and of themselves.” They are tax bracketed as a “church or convention or association of churches.” That doesn’t mean they consider themselves to be a religion. That sounds culty. It just means they’re exempt. The Salvation Army has many churches that also have shelters. The people who use the shelters are not forced to go to the churches, but nevertheless they have churches.
Also, their website states that 82% of the donations go to their own programs.
Believe it or not, people who work in higher management are ONLY allowed to marry other people who work for the SA. To be married to someone who is not also part of the organization is against the rules and you can be fired for it (and quite a few people have been). That is not speculation.
Who cares ??? Just SHUT UP, YOU MORON !!!
Why to homosexuals deserve special rights for a
lifestyle of Choice ??? I don’t want to know what you do
in your bedroom or your BARNYARD !!!
They are a church not a religion.
And some of their program include anti gay legislation, and trying to get out of obeying the law (discrimination against gay and lesbian people) including a lawsuit against the government stating they were in the right to terminate an employee for no reason other then the employee being homosexual.
I am all for the Salvation Army! They are a good organization and the fact that they are still voicing what the Bible says is another reason to support them in my opinion. It’s amazing to me how non-Christians get so angry when Christians live according to the Word of God, yet they also get angry when we don’t and call us hypocrites.
I agree…The Salvation Army are a great organisation who are correct by the bible and they are voicing God’s word.
Some people may not agree with it but that is no reason to attack them.
The Bible was written by MEN and its “word” has been distorted over hundreds of years of translations and actual alterations by MEN IN POWER.
God (if such a thing exists) did not come down and do a writer’s workshop and BOOM there was the Bible. No. It was written by MEN for MEN. In particular, by MEN IN POWER to use as a vehicle of oppression.
The Bible is the inspired word of GOD, given to MEN
from GOD the HOLY SPIRIT by inspiration. If you
don’t believe in “something” unseen, how do you
explain electricity or the wind ??
Science explains those just fine thanks. we don’t need Idiotianity to explain them, there isn’t a sky daddy sitting up there
Really, you can’t see wind? Weird, I see it blowing stuff around all the time. You might want to get that looked at.
except that there is no God.
You are hypocrites! What happened to “Love thy neighbor”? It doesn’t say, “unless he is gay” at the end of it.
“Love thy neighbor” does not mean “condone their every action.” I love many people, that doesn’t mean I agree with or believe everything they do is right. But I still love them. I have gay friends, I love them. But that does not require me to accept their lifestyle choices. Just as they are not required to accept mine. There is no hypocrisy anywhere within it.
What does that even mean asshole? Christians are so keen on ostracizing people its scary. If you ask me, truly ‘loving’ someone means you accept them for who they are and how they act as a human being, not on their sexual orientation.
To be fair, this man was speaking calmly and frankly– hardly deserving the name-calling. I myself am agnostic, not a Christian, but I understand what he means. That’s not to say, though, that every Christian follows that. And it’s true, you can love someone and still disagree with some of their choices– the love comes in where you treat them fairly and graciously non-the-less.
If the Salvation Army doesn’t practice this, then I indeed have a problem with it myself. This isn’t, though, a call to put up arms against Christianity as a whole.
So, you accept members of the KKK? neo-Nazis? You say you accept people for who they are and how they act, does that mean that you accept people who act in evil ways and do not condemn those evil ways?
It also says judge not lest you be judged yourself.
“Christians whose sexual orientation is primarily or exclusively same-sex are called upon to embrace celibacy as a way of life…Likewise, there is no scriptural support for demeaning or mistreating anyone for reason of his or her sexual orientation. The Salvation Army opposes any such abuse.”
I atucllay found this more entertaining than James Joyce.
Love has nothing to do with acceptance of a sinful life style. John 14:15 “If you love me, keep my commandments.” 1Cor. 6: 9-10 “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.” You obviously have a problem with God’s word. Take it up with him.
Non-Christians get angry when supposed “Christians” pervert their religion to achieve the polar opposite of what Christ actually said (or at least, what the bible says he said.)
Where in the bible is there a proscription against priests marrying? Indeed, where in the bible is there any mention of priests, a Pope, a church hierarchy, Indulgences, and so forth.
Mankind has perverted Christ’s message- that is what has gotten so many “angry”.
How about, regardless of what you believe, you let gay people do and get what they’re getting in life, and stop judging them? You don’t have to condone it, but stop trying to control or judge them. In short: STOP TRYING TO DO GOD’S JOB FOR HIM.
We are not trying to control or judge them, just not
going to give them “special” rights or “protected”
status based on a choice ! What is NEXT ? “Special”
rights for Men who “like” SHEEP ?? It’s also a choice,
a really SICK choice. STOP with the shouting from the
rooftops about your bedroom choices, I don’t want to
hear it !!!!!
How about people who worship a 2000 year old zombie and believe everyone that doesn’t agree with the cult dogma goes to “hell’. oh wait that’s your belief
You realize the church hasn’t collected indulgences in hundreds of years, right? This isn’t Germany in the 1500s buddy.
It’s only when groups that interfere with other people to make their lives harder that I draw the line at. I’m not angry at them practicing and believing what’s in the Bible, it’s just when they decide to use the lobbying power that they have to push legislation that affects people that they don’t agree with that I have major issues with. Religious groups should not have lobbying power in the first place.
No one should have lobbying power. One person. One vote.
I live in San Francisco, am surrounded plenty of gay culture and know plenty of gays. I have no problem with how people live, whom they love, etc. I do, however, draw the line at “groups that interfere with other people to make their lives harder”
Few groups are more intolerant of differing views then the LGBT activists. They are the one trying to control and silence others. Don’t like the Salvation Army? Don’t donate to them or seek their services. If you really dislike them start a website and say why. That’s fine.
But LGBT groups wish to actively interfere with any organization that disagrees with them. They want the government to dictate how religious groups practice. It is the gay rights groups who want to silence people by demonizing their views. It is the LGBT activists who use public records to track down private citizens who donate to causes they dislike and go to their homes and businesses to harass and intimidate them.
LGBT groups would be perfectly happy to shut down all of the charitable services provided by the Salvation Army just because they disagree on the definition of marriage. So what if thousands go hungry? My sex life must be affirmed! These self righteous fools have forced Catholic groups out of the adoption business because they’d rather children go homeless then accept a world where ANYONE dare disagree with there agenda in the slightest. How long before they demand priests be arrested or fined for “hate speech” if they give a sermon against gay marriage?
Gay Rights groups spend their time, energy and millions of dollars for what? To alter the thousands of years old definition of a word (marriage). Why? Because they absolutely must have society affirm their love? And then these narcissists have the gall to attack charitable groups who actually contribute something to the world. Disgusting.
And before anyone spouts more nonsense about civil rights please read up a bit on the realities of Jim Crow, lynchings, segregation and other real injustices experienced by blacks before you compare the childish gay “rights” movement to the Civil Rights movement.
And your word of god, the bible… was written by an English King. I am a non Christian. I am not mad, simply sad that you follow a book that was written and rewritten and rewritten by Kings who wanted their way!
I suggest you do more research into the historical and literary underpinnings of the New Testament. Most assuredly was not written by any kings, much less English ones.
No, but the text was indeed altered by White European men, such as King James… So, unless you’re reading the original Aramaic/Hebrew/Greek texts, you’re most likely reading an alteration.
But keep on believing it’s the Word of God. That’s fine. Just don’t force it upon others.
Your lack of knowledge of Christianity is evident. You have proven that you are not a Christian. You may be a simply sad anonymous non Christian.
YOU ARE A IGNORAMOUS !!! As a HISTORY major,
I am offended by your ignorrance. The KING JAMES
Bible was commissioned by King James I (VI of Scotland).
Commissioned (for the ignorrant) means PAID for the
translation into English from the original Hebrew & Greek
text. Remember that Christianity had been controlled by
the Roman Catholic Church for a LONG time and the Bible
was only written in Latin. This created a disconnection
between God’s word and the common man/believer, since
(usually) only the priestly class could read the Word.
Try doing some research. You can find examples of the
first Hebrew or Greek texts and compare them to the KJ.
Of course, remember that at the time it was translated using
many Old English words, ie Ye, Thee, etc.
Anonymous COWARD
I am FOR several christian organizations although I myself am an atheist. When a christian organization offers services freely, not discriminating against groups but simply providing help to those in need, I support them for those efforts. However, the salvation army pours a lot of money into fighting equal opportunity, and on trying to get anti gay legislation passed. They have repeatedly broken anti-discrimination laws, and yet suffer no real penalties.
A law that is written by man. Since so many people believe that the Bible is written by man, then why is any organization obligated to abide by such law (made my man)?
I understand why the news would write about this but it is not necessary to influence the audience that the Salvation Army is unworthy or unethical.
I would thumbs down this site if I could.
I completely agree! The SA should not be attacked just because they uphold God’s teachings! We Bible-believing Christians need to take a stand for what God says is right. We shouldn’t sit back and let groups such as the ACLU gain a foothold. I’m sick and tired of conservatives catering to the wishes of the gas/lesbian/trans sexuals. Let’s take back our country that as founded on Godly principles. I support the SA whenever I can. I admire their courage to stand up for what’s right.
Was the Salvation Army homeless shelter following any laws regarding housing of men and women? Do the women in the homeless shelter have any right to not be housed with a man? Jennifer was a man who identified as a woman. His refusal to sleep in a shelter for men is a tragedy but is not the fault of the Salvation Army. That is not discrimination. That is reality.
Please feel free to give to other charities if you disagree with their message and beliefs. No one is forcing them to do ANY good in the world, but they do plenty. Even the finest supermodel has flaws, my friend. What I’m trying to figure out is if this is more about their religious views that annoy you or what they are actually doing with the donations they receive. As America becomes more and more secular, you find atheist/agnostic people becoming more outspoken and attempting to trash everything that Christians, Jews, etc… stand for. One could make the argument that these people are every bit as bigoted as hard right, Bible thumping conservatives. Christians have a right to their opinion and to put conditions on what they do with their money, and atheists the same.
So I can create a religion, not pay taxes, refuse to give equal benefits to christians when I don’t refuse to hire them at all, take in millions from the government tax-free, spend millions supporting candidates who successfully single out christians for second-class citizenship and that would be all right? Really, I would like to hear the answer.
Intolerance of intolerance is not intolerance. Speaking up against the bad that institutional religions do does not make one a bigot.
“Intolerance of intolerance is not intolerance.”
Riiiiight.
So you must also be against the argument for the Death Penalty?
“The murder (execution) of a murderer is not murder.”
and your response will be
Riiiiight.
Murder is defined as unlawful killing. If the death penalty were legal, it could not by definition be murder.
It would, however, be killing. So it would be absurd to say, “The killing of a killer is not killing.”
Thou shalt not kill.
“So I can create a religion, not pay taxes, refuse to give equal benefits to christians when I don’t refuse to hire them at all, take in millions from the government tax-free, spend millions supporting candidates who successfully single out christians for second-class citizenship and that would be all right? Really, I would like to hear the answer.”
Yes. If you’re at all familiar with the constitution that should have been obvious.
“Intolerance of intolerance is not intolerance.”
Let’s see, “Intolerance… is not intolerance.” Of course. It never is when it’s your intolerance you’re trying to justify.
“Speaking up against the bad that institutional religions do does not make one a bigot.”
So following your argument you’re saying that The Salvation Army is standing up for what they believe is the good against the institutional religion of secular humanism, therefore The Salvation Army is not a bigot.
First, while not specifically spelled out in the constitution, the 14th amendment guarantees equal protection of the law to each and every American citizen. This is almost always interpreted to mean that unless there is a specific legal reason for singling someone out (obvious intoxication in the case of places that sell alcohol, reasonable suspicion of criminal behavior in the case of law enforcement, etc.), you must treat all persons equally. You must deny everyone, allow everyone, or have other non-discriminating criteria as the basis of your decision.
Secondly, technically speaking, tolerance isn’t a bad when it’s bad things you don’t tolerate — I’m intolerant of criminals and mildew on my bathroom walls –, but most people use the word idiomatically to mean discrimination.
Finally, just because you stand up for what you believe in doesn’t mean you can’t be a bigot. Bigotry is intolerance (in the idiomatic sense, as stated earlier), and that clearly fits the definition of the Salvation Army.
AGREED!!!
yes
Sure, “Christians have the right to their opinion and to put conditions on what they do with their money,” but everyone who subscribes to that belief set or any other has the right to be concerned with what acts an organization does in the name of a “god” or anyone else. I don’t see the author putting forth an anti-christian sentiment here at all, merely pointing out that the Salvation Army is a go-to charity around the holidays since they make themselves very present, and that some people, whether they be non-Evangelical Christians, athetists, Jews, or alien-worshippers might want to know about some of the organization’s political leanings before they toss some pennies to the guy with the bell and the Santa hat. What people really have a right to is full disclosure on how charities use the funds they collect.
I understand this is an opinion piece, but besides being an ignoble attempt to promote homosexuality by igniting a false sense of suspicion surrounding one of the most efficient and upstanding non-profit organizations in history… there is nothing approaching a serious criticism presented.
“Promoting homosexuality”???? Honey, I hate to burst your bubble, but gays don’t “recruit”. Just sayin’.
I agree with Anonymous, I’m not sure at all how this article could be construed as “promoting homosexuality.”
The S
The Salvation Army’s web site is very clear in what they believe. No one is ever forced to contribute. You can read what they say and make your decision based on your beliefs. Full disclosure is available if you take the time to read their mission statement.
Right – but somehow I don’t think this article is targeted at conservative Christians looking for a place to donate. It’s targeted towards people who would consider what the Salvation Army supports bigotry but don’t know that’s what they actually do.
So, more or less what KJ said above me. Somehow I missed that post before posting mine.
I agree with the reply below me.
But also, yes, religious groups are entitled to their opinions, we all are. If they want their own rules, well (hopefully) no one is forcing you to subscribe to the religion, if you choose to be part of it, you choose to be part of the rules too. That’s fine.
What I have a problem with is that they get a *lot* of funding, tax breaks, etc and they do not have to account for where the money goes. I also think this of governments, too.
I agree that fundamentalist non-religious people are just as horrible and ignorant. As an athiest, I don’t agree with abusing and disrespecting people’s belief systems, just as you probably don’t agree with fundamentalist religious groups. But I would prefer a loud and vocal criticism that everyone can see, rather than an organisation that deliberately misleads people and is quiet (possibly to the point of being dishonest) about their agenda or what they truly stand for and believe in.
Finally, you said “Christians have a right to their opinion and to put conditions on what they do with their money, and atheists the same.”
No, no we don’t. That’s kind of the point. Non-religious groups do not get special exemptions for their beliefs.
I agree
Christian’s have the same right to their opinion, and yes, they can do what they like with their own money. However we are not talking about their money. It is the money of the people who donated it. And I doubt very much if many of the people who donate to this charity realise where they money is going, and have even thought about looking into what the Salvo’s stand for. This is not about Christian bashing, it’s about education of something that every donator should be aware of. So that they may make an informed decision. The Salvo’s definitely don’t divulge this information when they come knocking on your door… Someone has to spread the word.
It’s not that hard to find. Each of us have to take some personal initiative and make informed choices.
There is a huge difference. The salvation army has fought against equal opportunity, against human rights by supporting discrimination, and has even been sued for firing people based only on the fact that the former employees were gay.
Yes, some people believe there should be nothing wrong with discrimination, and they should take a hard look at themselves and compare themselves to Hitler. Discrimination is discrimination, no matter what the basis of the discrimination is. They may not be gassing people to death, but they are still discriminating against a group of people based on that groups beliefs.
It’s about time we go after these religious pricks. They have their rights to practice that abortion they call religion because everyone has their freedom of choice. So, for those who try to effect the rights of others, they should loose their own rights. It should be open season on these religious pricks. Wipe them out and improve the gene pool instantly.
GK–
Violence never solves problems. You’re not going to open minds by threatening people. If you turn everything into us vs. them, then there will never be a “we.”
If you’re going to be equally intolerant, then please don’t push other to follow you.
LP
Well put. I was thinking of making a comment, but you put it better then what i was formulating in my mind.
You’ve inspired me to comment on this.
You are living proof that people in this world are completely insane. It’s people like you that will destroy the world as you know it.
You are right
So rather than engage is a meaningful debate on the issues, all you want to do is call people names? Where is the tolerance and acceptance that those on the left demand? It is a small mind that reverts to name calling when they can’t provide a reasoned and thought out position. You are probably the first person to cry foul when your beliefs are attacked. So say wipe them out of the gene pool, what makes you better than anyone else seems you are the pot calling the kettle black.
“So, for those who try to effect the rights of others, they should loose their own rights.”
So, by your own definition, you should lose your rights. Brilliant!
Aren’t you trying to effect the rights of the Salvation Army and those “religious pricks” you hate so much? Blatant, ignorant and moronic hypocrisy is laughable.
You all sound equally stupid.
Troll, go away.
You know the most absurd thing about this conversation is that all of you, and the one who wants to kill religious pricks, are being led by hatred-you are not free. Any institution created by man, the oldest being the Church, is home to the worst, most intolerant and hateful, violent manifestations.
Each and every individual alone is responsible for their relationship or lack of it with the creator of the universe. The Church, the government, the unions, the military, the gay rights organizations, the anti-abortion organizations-rock bands, elite aristocrats to homeless organizations are all subject to mans’ inhumanity to man, because it is the easy way out. Love, loving people where and who they are, compassion and peace are individual decisions and so is your relationship to the creator; God, whatever you call it. I have crossed over and come back twice, and the stark reality is all of you are being led by the pied piper of a dead end, arguing and blaming each other, because we all end up in the same place-standing before the creator-just you and He…. how the choice of choosing Love and loving ourselves creates compassion and peace, it is the free gift of our creator, and apparently the hardest thing for a human to do. My prayers that you can see this.
I have no respect and only anger for ALL institutions, because they are all corrupted, because they are nothing but groups of prideful greedy people. Put your trust in the creator of Love, the Agape love of yourself and each other, and let hatred subside. Someone needs help, help them. Why blame this institution or that? Meet them where they are and help them with what they need. Jesus taught this, and His institution of His people, and the institution of those who hated Him and His people, both destroyed him. So the choice of Love seems the reasonable, peaceful friendship and relationship. Our existence is much nicer that way.
Your wisdom is profound Keith. Thank-you for providing your comment.
It’s spelled Genghis Khan. I believe you meant to say affect rather then effect. Your ignorance is showing. I hope you’re not suggesting that your genes would be superior.
It’s rather ‘than.’ Not ‘then.’ lol
I love it when “little girls” threaten behind the privacy of
the internet. I’ve been training for 30 years and am well armed.
We will be ready for you when you pop out into the sunlight from
your MOM’s basement. Talk is cheap and “OPEN” season is a
little more difficult when the target has better AIM ! Bring it !!!
Thanks for the enlightening article. I will make it a point to contribute to the Salvation Army as often as possible.
It is nice to hear that some organizations are resisting the Radical Homosexual Agenda.
I for one don’t want our Nation to be converted into a Communist Homotopia.
Merry Christmas !
@Publius
I like how you capitilized Radical Homosexual Agenda… does that make it more real for you? And what exactly would be their agenda? How have you personally been effected by this Agenda? And how do you make the jump from big H homosexual to big C communist?
Just thought I’d dig a bit deeper into your…. opinion.
Did you just say communist homotopia, lmao. Yeah cuz Homosexuals are all about communism. It’s got nothing to do with equal rights or anything lol. I mean sounds to me like your the salvation armys trying to be the communist. You know “no soup for you buddy, it don’t matter if yous a fag or not you aint getting no soup” cuz theres fags about and you could be one, and we dont feed no fags. Merry Christmas!” And one more thing thing to your salvation army, quite playing with your dinga linga ling!
Publius: In what way is GLBT persons advocating for the same rights the other 90% of people are free to have or do radical?
I’m donating to charities in your name that help support the notion that all humans are created equal and deserve equal treatment.
PS – please enlighten us on this ‘radical homosexual agenda’ – they are asking to be recognized in the same light as heterosexuals. not sure how that’s radical. You probably also hate women who don’t stay in the kitchen all day, little boys who like the color pink, puppies that beg for more food, and smiling.
Publius,
You’re disgusting.
Good luck in hell, if that’s what you believe in. I hope it’s a huge gay, communist orgy and that you never stop itching in the ass.
Happy Hanukkah!
because God loves it when “Christians” spread hate like that. /sarcasm
I was thinking the same thing.
Gah. I hate this reply set up.
Publius: I was thinking the same thing that you were. I’m off to drop $20 in one of their buckets.
As much as I think what you’re saying is stupid, I do think that you’ve struck gold with the word “Homotopia.”
I like my homotopia. I have my own radical agenda there – stop H8. Prick.
Radical Homosexual Agenda :
Objective 1: Promote homosexuality sex as hip and cool so offspring of Evangelicals turn gay instantly upon seeing a gay person, and then have same sex orgy’s in the mega-church basement with the crack smoking minister. Why are you have gay sex Born Again Johnny… “Looked so Cool, that I did it for the Lulz!”
Objective 2: Make Evangelical Men comfortable coming out of the closet, thus causing a 90% increase in the divorce rate within the Evangelical community.
…. Etc.
Join the party. over 50 % of Americans, maybe the worlds population, divorce at the drop of a hat. Is got nothing to do with gay or strait…its got to do with love and committment,and responsibility to live a civilized life. Please all of you leave your hatred behind-it only destroys. Gay or Strait. Jesus came for all of us, and Salvation is for all, not just who you think you want it for.
Right again Keith.
While I don’t believe in Jesus as you do, you are a very wise individual. Everything you’ve said so far is dead on. All this Hate on both sides is the problem, and too many people blind themselves to the fact that their own hate is no better then the hate felt by those they hate.
LOL.
I call trolling.
Apparently, no one caught the sarcasm…
Apparently… I thought it was screamingly obvious, but maybe it’s just me.
I think the Salvation Army is right on……………..
I for one an tired of the extremely small minority gay agenda being force upon us.
I for one am tired of the extremely small minded buttheads of the nation trying to force t heir morals upon us.
WHY ARE MOMMY AND DADDY FIGHTING?!
And I’m tired of immoral people trying to force their beliefs on me. And again with the name calling. Are all left leaning people so unintelligent? Come up with a reasoned argument, rebate the issues, and make changes within the system do it properly and gain respect. You do get attract more bees with honey, then you do with vinegar.
There you go! Read up, enlighten yourselves.
Just remember, the moral majority is neither!
There you go assuming, One I am not a religious person, I have a homosexual son, and I believe in his right of equality. What I don’t believe is the radical gay movement and all its hate and name calling. You want to be treated with respect, you want to be taken seriously, but you treat people that don’t agree with you with all the venom you can muster and then wonder why you can’t make progress. You accuse the majority of trying to force their beliefs on you and then turn around and do the same thing. Whatever happened to the golden rule? I hope you remember it, Do on to other as you would have others do on to you.
If I lived by the Golden Rule I would be allowed to discriminate against anyone whose lifestyle offends me. How does your son feel about you calling it a ‘radical gay movement’ – because I’m pretty sure, to him, it’s call asking for respect and equal treatment. Nothing radical about it what-so-ever.
Try reading the link: it debunks all the myths that hateful people spew out when they try to stop homosexuals from gaining the equal rights and treatment they deserve.
http://www.alternet.org/rights/149060/10_hateful_anti-gay_myths_debunked/
what I call the radical gay movement is the people that get in your face and call those that don’t agree with them names, those that parade down streets naked and try to push their agenda by showing the public how deprived they are. These types hurt the cause and show the mainstream they can not be taken serious and re-enforces the stereotypes the mainstream have of gays. So far those tactics haven’t worked. Using the Political and Judaical systems is the way to go, it also helps to have a well thought out and reasoned argument. Purely says you are an idiot if you don’t belief the way I do isn’t a productive use of time. When you act like reasonable people, then society will treat you that way.
Yes! All intelligent conservatives love a lively “rebate.” You guys crack me up.
Hey, the heterosexual community were was here FIRST. It is the gay folks who invaded. So if you don’t like have hetero morals “forced” upon you, get the F out.
Besides, what is this “forced” crap?!? If you idiots would keep your lifestyle to yourself nobody would give a crap. But noooooo, you just HAVE to make it public and in-your-face that you’re gay. Nobody gives a crap about what consenting adults do in the privacy of wherever. What we DO care about is that it’s darn near impossible to go through an airport without being propositioned by some flake who somehow believes that sucking a penis will make his world better. Ditto almost every restaurant, bar, sporting event, etc. We can’t even use the restrooms at freakin’ Walmart without being accosted by some penis-addicted slimeball who looks like they have not had a decent shower in month. We can’t urinate in any public facility without some degenerate asking if we have time to bareback them. Half the time, we SEE them giving head to somebody, or each other. Whatever. It’s gross, and it should not be public.
But here’s the thing……I’m a pretty tolerant open-minded guy. I’m secure enough that while I find all these advances annoying, I can laugh at them and walk away. But when I see this happening to young boys, it makes my blood boil. I know I am not alone on this. This past year I witnessed at least a dozen incidents where young boys, age 10 or less in some cases, were being propositioned by gay men. In a couple of cases, the boys were offered money, a video game cartridge, or other enticements. I personally know others who have witnessed this same behavior. None of us remember ever seeing it 20 or 30 years ago, so it’s getting more common. Why? I believe the radical gay agenda is emboldening lust-driven gay predators. This is not to say that 2 men who share feelings, and sex, with each other are all like this. But there are far too many gay predators today. And they are far more aggressive than ever before, thanks to gay activists trying to force their agande upon the rest of society, in the name of “rights”.
Part of me wants to assume you’re a troll, but there’s a chance you might not be.
First of all, you’re hurting whatever argument you’re trying to put forth by calling homosexuals names like “penis addicted slime balls” even if they are “accosting” you. I have never seen or heard of rational gay rights activists behaving in such an abhorrent manner.
And more importantly, the sad fact of the matter is that people DO in fact give a crap about what consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom, most commonly these people are religious fundamentalists who are of the opinion that their omnipotent, omniscient God has nothing more important to worry about than a person’s sex life. And they will do anything in their power to ensure the powers that be work in the favor of their dogma. That includes denying equal societal rights to homosexuals.
There are no equal societal rights to a CHOICE !!!
If I come from England and I like to drive North on
the LeFT side of the road, do I have the RIGHT to
exercise my CHOICE ??? No one is stopping you from
sleeping with your boyfriend, you just don’t have the
“RIGHT” to force your agenda (beliefs, choice) on
others. It’s the same concept that Liberals keep insisting
upon with “the seperation of Church and State”.
Also, by saying “the Heterosexual community was here first” you are creating an unnecessary dichotomy in our society. Wouldn’t it be a much nicer world to live in if instead of that we said that “People were here first”?
(That of course isn’t true either, but it’s not to be taken as a literal statement, I think you can squeeze that through your brain and come out with something close to the intended message.)
Actually, you weren’t here first. Our ancestors were omnisexual. We’re all just waking up from thousands of years of religious oppression, and that scares the bejeebers out of those benefiting from the power. The emotion that follows fear is anger and antagonism, hence your post. But it is too late, yours is a failing dogma.
Awesome, reason to give them money. Thank you.
Hmmm… when you go to an actual disaster… a real, live disaster, the Red Cross is monopolizing the TV cameras, then asking for money, asking for money, and asking for more money…
Sally (a common nickname for the Salvation Army) is on scene, passing out water, food, blankets and actually doing good.
I’ve been to multiple disasters, large and small… I know where I’ll send my contributions… and religion doesn’t play into it. Performance at the disaster does. Sally does the job. Consistently, and without demanding…. YMMV, but you might want to check with a few other folks who actually watch what Sally does.
Who cares if they help people? They’re not hiring Teh Gays so we better not drop our quarters in their buckets. /sarcasm
Thank you for your post that’s going largely ignored by people who know you’re right, and are just looking for excuses to not help their fellow man who is in REAL need.
The voice of actual experience. Thank-you.
So the red cross does no good at disasters? Thats funny since about 90% of medical aid in disaster areas is brought in by the red cross, including medicine and other supplies. I guess saving the lives of those who are injured and sick doesn’t help anyone. I’ll keep that in mind.
Wow! Is this what we’ve become? Now we discourage people from giving to the less fortunate? Wow! If we stop giving then no one will be the to help when you need. Think about it. The question you should be asking yourself about a charity is do they help people in need? If so give, because that’s what this is all about.
they use a large portion of the money I would donate, to fund projects I don’t agree with… so since I don’t want to fund the projects they fund… then I can decide to give monies to a charity I agree with.
You don’t want to fund homeless shelters, soup kitchens, drug rehabilitation and disaster relief? That’s pretty petty of you.
If the Salvation Army were the only charity that did those things than I would give money to them. But they aren’t. I have the choice and will donate to secular charities who also do those things without promoting inequality.
Well put Claire, I was looking to see where this important point would be commented. Good job
I didn’t know where to find this info then kobaom it was here.
i beleive that the homosexual agenda is the biggest doubblespeak around .The salavation army would be forced to stop the services by the government because it does not beleive in same sex anything a religous orginazation protected by the first amemdment of the constitution, freedom of religion.!freedom of the press, the right to gather.I believe that homosexual has become a religion in this country being enforced by factions of the government
I tried to read your comment but the spelling errors and everything else made my eyes bleed. Also, you are a nut case.
I completely understand your desire to remain “Anonymous” while offering such a poorly-constructed, grammar-mistake-riddled, dull-witted argument. I suggest you contact your nearest neurosurgeon. Inquire into the possibility of having a functioning brain replace the tiny, liquid-filled nubbin that currently rests atop your spinal cord. It will probably be considered elective surgery by your insurance company. But, as in elective cosmetic procedures, it will do wonders for your self-esteem. Or at least it will help you with basic sentence structure, spelling, and rudimentary logic.
What’s your full, real, on-the-birth-certificate name? Until then, you’re anonymous too, “Slacker.”
What a one-sided, bigotted rant. Yes, the Salvation Army is a church. I don’t belong to their church and I don’t agree with everything they believe. But their views are similar to many other churches. Most people won’t agree with them or ANY other church. You might as well condemn all except the most liberal Christian churches. The Salvation Army does contribute a huge amount of its financial and people resources to social services like food pantries, drug treatment clinics and medical care for the poor. They try to care for people regardless of whether those people share their views. They do this while most folks do nothing. Disagree with them if you choose but don’t vilify them over differences on hot-button issues.
The difference here is that nobody donates to churches they don’t belong to…except for the Salvation Army. Mr. Clements isn’t asking for the Salvation Army to be shut down – he’s simply informing people of what the Salvation Army truly supports. Considering the fact that most people in America have donated at least a little bit of change to the Salvation Army at some point in their lives, this article is valuable in that it shows people what they’re really supporting.
Writing a one-sided, biased article isn’t really informative. Discounting all the good the Salvation Army does for individuals and communities simply because he doesn’t agree with the religious part of their practices is not enlightening journalism.
A lot of people donate to churches they don’t belong to. Churches run a lot of social programs. I can’t name one secular organization in my city that provides food to the needy, but I can name several churches off the top of my head, none of which I belong to, that receive a lot more donations than their own congregation alone could come up with because a large portion of people recognize that charity toward the needy is more important than their own political agendas. Churches generally operate on a local level, and people who care about their communities donate to the social services programs offered.
The Salvation Army, however, operates on a much larger scale than local churches and can solicit donations easily. The money they use comes from a broad spectrum of people and is used to help a broad spectrum of people. I’m glad that “most people in America have donated at least a little bit of change” because it shows that regardless of political motivation, they know that there are people in need and helping those people is a lot more important than some political agenda.
Really? You can’t think of a SINGLE non-Christian organization that provides support for the needy in your community? What about United Way? I find it hard to believe that there isn’t a UW group in your area. The United Way runs food and clothing programs around the world without requiring (a much more accurate word than ‘forcing,’ which many people have erroneously used in their responses) the recipients of their services to abide by a Christian moral code. The same Christian moral code, incidentally, that forbids homosexual conduct, also forbids the eating of shellfish. Eaten any shrimp recently?Because if you have, you’re as much of an abomination in the eyes of Yahweh as that ‘fag’ you ridicule so much.
Very few, if any, legitimate Christian charities require the recipients of their care to live by the Christian moral code. Many of them require it by their employees and volunteers, but I don’t know of any that make those demands on the people they try to help.
The United Way doesn’t run anything Tim. They raise money and give it to organizations. They have several well publicized problems with how they spend their money. Christian moral code does not forbid the eating of shellfish. You are referring to the Torah. Your ignorance is showing.
Burton: He said they don’t deserve your money. You may be very gifted at reading between the lines but I don’t see what is not written in this blog. They have not kept secrets about what they believe.
Black Magic is out too!
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2010/12/09/calgary-salvation-army-harry-potter-toys.html
Does a church have the right to have beliefs?
Can I point out a giant [citation needed]
Can I point out the links inside the article that go to the pages the information is from?
You mean the link to an article you have to pay for?
Thanks for the information. I did not know this about the Salvation Army. I will make sure I go right out and donate to them. I will donate often. Finally an organization that stands up for what the majority of Americans beleive.
Using your logic we should have still allowed slavery or prohibit interracial marriage. So you feel that it is ok to discriminate against a minority ?
Let me guess, you live in the south huh ?
There’s a huge difference between being black and being gay.
Let me guess, you’re riddled with straight white guilt, huh?
Are you biased against everyone who lives in the south Frank? The question is not whether a majority or minority is entitled to their beliefs. The question is whether or not a church has a right to their beliefs. That is why separation of church and state is necessary.
Yep, that is your right. It’s also my right to make it clear what that money is being used for and to suggest others who share similar views to give to another charity.
plus the bell-ringing is fucking annoying.
Yes, a completely mature reason to not donate to a charity that helps millions.
They don’t pay their bills, either. I contracted to deliver goods for them several times and the NEVER paid on time. Their standard operating procedure seems to be to ignore invoices until you start calling them, then they try and guilt-trip you into waiving it “because they’re a charity”. That’s a terrible way to treat small businesses, most of whom can’t afford to float the expense of a truckload of merchandise while fighting with them.
They don’t pay their bills or they NEVER paid on time?
The Salvation Army does a lot of good for the world at large. Regardless of what their views are. It sounds like your beef is more with Christianity/the Christian God, than with the organization in general. I for one feel that the benefits they provide outweigh any bad marks against them, and will continue to support them.
You would think different if your child was gay
I doubt it. If my child was gay, the last thing on my mind would be, “I better stop supporting a charity because they wouldn’t hire my son.” Guess what? Your son can get hired somewhere else. For a lot of homeless people, there aren’t a lot of options.
Actually, I’m a practicing Catholic… I almost went to Seminary… so, no, my beef is not with Christianity. However, it’s nice to see how many people instantly went for the “He’s an Atheist!” route.
The majority of Christian denominations hold that practicing homosexuality is an immoral act. Catholic doctrine holds that to be true as well (unless they’ve changed it recently). If you disagree with that doctrine, you have a beef with Christianity/the Christian God, regardless of your personal belief system.
Besides, I believe there is also Judaism, Muslim, Hinduism, Buddhism, and lots of other “isms” you could subscribe to without being an atheist.
“Catholic doctrine holds that [practicing homosexuality is an immoral act] to be true as well (unless they’ve changed it recently)”.
After reading the above line, I spit coffee through my nose all over my computer screen.
Of course Catholic doctrine still considers homosexuality a sin. Unless, of course, it involves a priest diddling a young lad. Then it is simply a “clerical error”.
I never thought about you being an atheist Mark. I just thought you should stick to fiction and the Seafarer’s log.
I give to THE SALVATION ARMY every year. If the writer would get a Bible, and seriously read through it, he would understand that the word SALVATION is not just a term.
The ARMY OF THE SAVED will rule this world someday, and I would hope that everyone who reads this article will give to THE SALVATION ARMY, and be sure they have been forgiven of their sins, so that they will be a member of THE ARMY OF GOD someday.
You sound like a mental patient.
WHEN you CAN figure OUT HOW TO capitalize WORDS properly then SOMEONE might TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY.
It’s called “EMPHASIS” (In Capital letters) !
Will you please hold your breath until “someday” comes?
Interesting replies, but no scripture verses for me to read to get as bitter as the three[as of now] of you.
I am mentally fit
I capitalize When I Wish TO
I don’t like to hold my breath for more than 1 min.
Tool.
This really sums up the entire problem with religion. It’s viral insanity.
Thanks for the info. It’s always good to be informed. They won’t get another penny from me…ever! In fact, it’s going to be difficult not to scowl as I pass them by. However, in the spirit of “the season”, I’ll give it my best.
You’re very easily swayed by bias and opinion, aren’t you? I know it’s hard to think for yourself when someone says the word “bigot” and you want to distance yourself as far as possible from that term, but weighing the pros and cons isn’t that hard.
Judeo / Christianity says homosexual sex is a sin. Get over it.
What’s your point? Your imaginary friend says something is bad, fine, go on with your bad self. I believe something different. Get over it.
Yes, the book of Leviticus does say homosexuality is a sin. That very book also says that women should submit to their husbands under all circumstances, that it’s okay for you to beat your slaves if they disobey you, that disobedient children should be put to death, that you shouldn’t eat shellfish because it’s unclean, and that ejaculating outside of a woman is an immoral crime and the man should be put to death for it.
Please, if you’re going to say that something is a sin, don’t cherry-pick what you think should be. It’s all or nothing, man.
Christians aren’t subject to Mosaic law, so Leviticus actually isn’t necessary to cite.
Look to all the references to the evils of homosexuality in the New Testament that people who try to change Christianity tend to ignore. I’ll get you started.
Romans 1:26-27
I Corinthians 6:9-10
I Timothy 1:9-10
The theme of man and woman being the natural order of things is also rampant, not only in the Bible but in basic biology.
There are homosexual penguins that have raised young together. It happens naturally, therefore it is biologically explainable. Check and mate.
So go fuck a penguin.
http://www.danaanpress.com/hsex.html
This article relays some important discoveries of the Evolutionary/genetic benefits of homosexuality. Read up
How can evolution occur without heterosexual relationships?
You are referring to the Torah.
u know what??
thank you, this article just made me to be
even more supportive towards salvation army!
you know why? because this just prove that they will stand for
whatever they believe without compromising,
and that is what i’m looking in a charity. 🙂
I agree!
I have attended church at the Salvation army regularly for two years now and my daughter is a jr soldier. When needy families sign up for Christmas assistance, they are not asked about their sexual orientation nor has it ever been a topic of discussion. Some Christmases wouldnt have been possible for my children if it were not for those bell collectors. It’s difficult for me to read the article and matter of fact I could not finish reading it. Im sorry that someone higher up has made such a stupid decision. But the money is still providing for the poor…I’ll be ringing my bell at the Kroger in Newport on the 21st from 10 am -12pm. Help me provide Christmas for low income families in our area and to support the wonderful families within the church and the programs they provide.
TINA….it’s great that you are blessed, and that you are a blessing to others.
I applaud the Salvation Army for standing up for what’s right. I rang the bell for them last weekend and will do so again in a week.
God bless the Army and its volunteers.
Merry Christ-mas.
Thank you Justin for your bell-ringing. I know it takes precious time from your homeless, drug-addicted life, but we thank you for it. By the way … how much of the “donations” did you decide were intended for you and you alone?
Justin Time for Christmas, that was low, disgusting, and uncalled for.
Ah, stereotyping, speculation and crude, juvenile name-calling. ’tis the season.
I’m sure if you ever looked at one of the red kettles, you’d realize they are locked and that the bell ringers don’t have keys. But logic is hard, I know.
Wow you are such a hypocrite. In ever response you give a generic “Typical response from people on the opposite side of me.” Then you say something about how low name-calling is. But, and here’s the kicker, you then proceed to insult the person you are calling immature. Every time I see your name it’s a condescending remark, no matter what the content of the post (as long as it’s not your side).
Stop replying to every post with a “Actually if you read form C-73 you’d know this, dummy” response.
I’m in no way bashing your side of the debate, I just think you’re acting like a douchebag.
If you live in a large city in the US and the Salvation Army decided to leave, your city would implode. And for some unknown reason I doubt all you 19-24 year old atheists living in your mom’s basement would hurry in and take care of the poor and elderly. Live in a big city for a while and you’ll wish there were more Salvation Armies.
What if I am an 18-24 year old atheist who lives on my own and supports myself?
I’m sure you would race to the help of those in need. You probably give a lot of your hard earned money to the poor. Sorry about that.
I give what i can afford to those around me who need help, but as for as official charities I avoid them. I don’t really like to be affiliated with any religious organization too much, because I really don’t have a structured set of religious beliefs, and I’m can’t really afford to give any amount of money that is significant enough to any other charity.
I do, however, have multiple family members who work for The Salvation Army, and I hope that they wouldn’t turn anyone away because of their sexual preferences, given that I am gay.
But I guess people can and will shock you, so you never really know.
It’s long established that, as an organization, they do not turn away people because of sexual, religious preference, race, illness etc. In fact it’s their mission to receive those who are most marginalized by society. They just won’t actively support that which they find to be in conflict with their beliefs. NYC (and SF) have asked them to adopt NYC’s belief system or to stop caring for their citizens. The Salvation Army called their bluff and it turns out the cities need them more than they need the cities. Back to my first comment that every major city in the US would fall apart without religious organizations caring for it’s citizens. Take an honest look at the world and you will see that few others will do the dirty work of serving others. Gates will give his billions (which is wonderful) but will he get on his knees and wash the feet of the HIV+ prostitutes who walk the streets of NYC? Probably not. The Christians want to do it because they know that they too are the poor – the spiritually poor that needed help and received it. That is Christianity. It’s not always practiced as it should be but when it is it’s hard to find anything more beautiful.
I doubt that dropping a quarter in a bucket “affiliates” you with the Salvation Army unless you’re demanding a tax deduction and have your name written all over said quarter. Which I doubt.
First, The article is bashing christianity. That is not really fair since not all christians are like that.
#2. Sally ann is bad for doing that. Coporations don’t have faces, now all I can see sally ann is a bigot, and those who agree are bigots.
#3 I am a christian and I appauled by some comments on here by other christians. Grow the F up.
Article is crap
“Sure, the Salvation Army does some noble things. Using charity money and government funding to further an anti-gay, Evangelical agenda is not one of them. ”
wow, you christian basher you! omg you are such an atheist! jus kiddin great job Mark!
What about Salvation Army’s Adult Rehabilitation Center? That detox/rehab program has saved hundreds of thousands of lives. I don’t agree with their bigotry, but I’m grateful for the assistance they give to struggling addicts and alcoholics.
I’m sure the Nazis did some good things in their time, too. They brought the German economy from the incredible lows of the post-war 20’s right up to make it one of the world’s top economies of the 30s. They made huge improvements to many areas of German society. So we should praise them as saints, right, because they did a few good things? I mean, they only really picked on a few small minorities, so that’s ok, right?
If they want to be an aid organisation, then they should be an aid organisation. Offer help to ALL that need it. Not discriminate based on sex, religion, race, or anything else. Not refuse donations because they don’t fit their very narrow-minded worldview. There are hundreds of organisations dedicated SOLELY to helping the needy, and they don’t need a stupid make-believe fairy to help them out. And they don’t need to discriminate against anybody or anything to do it. If the Salvation Army collapsed tomorrow, then society would continue to function just as well – other organisations would pick up the slack, and the donation money, and take over. Hopefully without the religious bullshit that goes with it now.
Really? You’re comparing the Salvation Army to the Nazis? Maybe you need a brief history lesson. And some common sense.
Comparing the Salvation Army to Nazis is absolutely absurd. I mean, whoa.
Maybe Andrew confused Army with Nazi. 😉
That\’s way more clever than I was expcteing. Thanks!
Nazi’s didn’t like church either.
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Who cares if you believe in what they believe. But you cannot deny that they have done great work. So you say people can do what they want and believe what they feel is right, but if that person is an evangelical Christian or anti-gay, then they cannot have an opinion. Such two-faced hypocrites!
While I agree with you that the Salvation Army’s stance against same-sex relationships renders them unworthy of donations, I object to the argument that “overhead costs” and “political lobbying” are reasons not to give.
The fact is that NO business can operate without administration, and no good business – which charities are expected to be the very best at – can operate without well-resourced administration which supports hiring qualified staff, accurate and transparent accounting, monitoring and evaluation, development and retention of staff which saves money over the long term and is essential for program delivery, and even more straightforward things like communications. Charities should be measured on the OUTCOMES of their programs, not the amount they spend on achieving them.
As for lobbying governments? I argue that organisations who deal with issues like homelessness, drug addiction, poverty, health etc every single day are best placed to advise governments on the development of legislation and support programs rather than politicians themselves who have spent their entire lives balancing the ledger of friends and fans with an intensity even Mark Zuckerberg would be proud of.
Don’t agree with a charity’s stance on something? Absolutely – don’t donate to them. But reasons like ‘administration’ and ‘lobbying’ are genuine expenses for charities and are poor ways of measuring effectiveness.
“I object to the argument that “overhead costs” and “political lobbying” are reasons not to give.”
I don’t think you read it very closely. To your first point, the thing you have to realize is that most charities are required to publicly disclose what percentage of your donation will actually go to the cause they’re soliciting for and what percentage will go to overhead. But the S.A. is not required to do so, because they’re “religious”. To many people, the suggestion that one-third or more of the donated money is going straight to overhead would be a red flag. I grant you, not to everybody, but not all information will matter to everybody. Some people see their anti-gay policy and would still support them, others wouldn’t. As your second point:
” I argue that organisations who deal with issues like homelessness, drug addiction, poverty, health etc every single day are best placed to advise governments on the development of legislation and support programs”
Then you don’t understand what lobbying is. What you’re talking about is advising the government on things. Lobbying is spending money in order to manipulate what the government is going to do. In this case, there is ample evidence that the Salvation Army has lobbied in various ways against equal rights for homosexuals. Are you saying that the Salvation Army knows more about homosexuals than actual homosexuals?
I think one major point is being overlooked here. Marriage is NOT a right for anyone- gay, straight or otherwise. It is something that must be done within the confines of each states’ laws. I can’t marry my mother even though I am a male, and she a female. There are conditions that must be met. So, the Salvation Army isn’t lobbying to suppress gay “rights”, rather they are opposing gay, government sanctioned marriage. I personally don’t agree with same sex marriage, because to me, marriage is not only about the relationship between two people, it is about procreation and furthering of society as a whole.
I live in New Zealand, am bisexual and was born in 1987 – and had no idea about this. I even volunteered in one of their thrift shops with my mother to help out. I was even on their xmas parade float one year.
Now I feel ashamed that i did this volunteer work.
You feel ashamed that you helped a charity assist the needy because you’re a dime-a-dozen “bisexual?” Get over yourself.
Did they discriminate against you Ray? Were you made to feel unwelcome. Did they ask you to stop your lifestyle. No. You “had no idea about this”. Time to ponder the validity of this blog.
Good for the Salvation Army. Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin (1 Cor 6:9). The Salvation Army also believes that the only way to God is through Christ. This is probably more offensive to non-believers than other social stances, but the truth is the truth. If you don’t think that this organization is worthy of your money, then don’t give, but I, as a Christian, and proud that they are standing on Biblical principals as they minister to the needed in this world. They deserver more of my money.
So let’s see, this article points out that the Salvation Army was threatening action that would affect the lives of thousands of people in New York just to make a stand on principal, and how wrong that was. In the same article, we’re encouraged not to donate to Salvation Army, thus threatening to affect the lives of thousands of people just to make a stand on principal. Ummm….. ok. One thing is certain. Whoever wrote this article should consider a career in politics. That level of proficiency in double standards could go far.
Bravo.
Don’t forget that we’re supposed to be tolerant of everything… except people we don’t like. Then we just label them “bigots” and somehow justify our own hypocrisy. Duh.
Mark excelled at circular reasoning in Philosophy.
“endangered the lives of several thousand people reliant on the Salvation Army.” Really????? Charity is not obligation.
Though I do not agree with the social agenda of the Salvation Army, it continues to baffle me how people who claim to believe that everyone deserves the right to self determination continue to believe that those who proscribe to certain faiths are exempt from that rule. Tolerance is not a one way street, and by attacking people whose religious beliefs are different from your own, you are just as guilty. Do not get me wrong; I have no objection to you informing the public of the consequences of donating to the SA. People have the right to know where their money is going and to then make informed decisions for themselves. To imply that they are evil people for not accepting Harry Potter donations, makes you no better. As an organization, they have every right to use their money to lobby the government for policies that they support; thank god that is a freedom that all of us in America enjoy. If you do not agree with them, then form/join a counter lobby. But please, for all of our sakes, do not imply that they should not have the right to do it. The first Amendment gives all Americans the right to exercise a freedom of religion as well as a right to assemble and petition. To imply that any group does not deserve that right is tantamount to cutting off your nose to spite your face. The implications of dismantling our 1st Amendment rights are far more dangerous than the lobbying efforts of a Christian Charity organization will ever be.
Perfectly stated!
Very well stated L.R.
Exactly what is the homosexual agenda? To make this a tastefully decorated place where there are lots of antiques and art, people like musicals again, and RuPaul is accepted as being more beautiful than stupid Angelina Jolie, and where everyone gets along? I actually think that sounds rather fun! :0) I’ll buy in.
The “Homosexual Agenda” is often cited when homosexuals try to normalize their lifestyle by forcing people into tolerance and acceptance.
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They will always have my support!
I have worked for the Salvation Army in Australia for the past 4 years. I work for an outreach program that helps underprivileged members of the community. I am not a part of the church. I am an atheist in fact. Two of my bosses are gay and also several of my colleagues. In my time working for the Salvos I have never, ever seen or heard about anyone within our organization discriminating against anyone, for any reason. They will help you regardless of your race, gender, sexual preference, religious views, criminal history etc. To them, people are people. I would really hate for anyone reading this article to not donate because of it. It is truly not representative of the fantastic work that the Salvos do in Australia. Theses people are the salt of the earth and would give you the shirt from their back – regardless of who you choose to go to bed with.
Amen, God bless you for your story. Our enemy is people’s hate, our friend is peoples love. Lets choose love.
Thank-you for sharing part of your real life experiences with the Salvation Army. Mark might want to do some research before writing his next blog. Freelance journalism does not mean you can write whatever you think is true. That is fiction which is stated as his forte.
Maybe we don’t all think homosexuality is worth supporting. Maybe the majority of the country actually is ANTI-GAY….I sure as hell am.
Well I plan on supporting the salvation army because of their good works. Publius it looks like you just stirred up thr fruit salad!
Ur fake and gay
My son and I often attend a local Salvation Army playgroup; they know full well that I am gay and that my son has two “mums”, but I have never had any kind of bad vibe from them. I’m not saying that their institutional beliefs are acceptable, but it is good to know that as individuals they are decent, rather than rabid, christians.
Apparently they do not discriminate despite what Mark would have us believe.
Your article and reasoning don’t make sense. You said yourself they support thousands of homeless people, at no cost to them, to the point that withholding service would endanger their lives, and yet you are also effectively saying that they don’t deserve to exist because they don’t support gay marriage. Are you saying that those lives are less important than the issue of gay marriage? That the phenomenal amount of good done by Christian charities is worth nothing?
“Christian homosexuals are encouraged to lead a life of celibacy” != “Homosexual sex should be made illegal.” Most Christian churches call their members to attend a service on Sunday, but there is no serious attempt to make a law requiring it. This view towards gays is held by the Catholic church, and I assume most other Christian churches as well. That’s an awful lot of people to label as bigots.
And finally, being against gay marriage is not bigotry. It is a position held by the majority of Americans, is a highly subjective topic to argue, and exists in a moral no-man’s land.
This kind of flaming and intolerance of anybody whose views differ from yours does not do your cause any service, and it makes you a hypocrite. Stop attacking the people who disagree with you, and start attacking their arguments. The difference between the two is astronomical, and if you don’t understand it then you have no business writing a blog on any controversial topic.
Very well written Bob. To call Mark’s blog an article is very generous given his poor reasoning ability and absence of common sense.
Mark Andre Clements guess your pro gay but really whom going to take their place? whom that big? It s church and if your morals aren’t theirs so what. as further an anti-gay, Evangelical agenda is not one of them gee you want to force them to hire gay people which is agaist thier beliefs. That’s wrong, Show me anyone org that can take there place with the same numbers, cash, programs nation wide then maybe I believe your right.
I don’t give money to charities because there is no way to know where that money really goes.
Instead, my form of charity is donating blood. It is always desperately needed and it is certain that this donation will actually reach people who need it.
[…] 1: don’t give to the Salvation Army. They value their hateful, bigoted, and ignorant religious agenda more than they value actually […]
Thanks for the article. I was aware the SA was a religious organization (and there’s nothing wrong with that per se) but I wasn’t aware of the discrimination they practice. I have put some money into those red kettles outside the store every year for a long time but I think it’s time to give to another charity that treats people more fairly.
It’s cute how this article brings all the Intertube bigots out of the woodwork, like the swarming insects they are, with their red herrings and their false dilemmas.
Yes, the Salvation Army has a right to their stupid opinion. They do not have a right for their stupid opinion to be unopposed. Other people have just as much a right to point out that the Salvation Army are a bunch of right-wing religious radical homophobic and until-recently racist nutjobs, the American equivalent of the Taliban.
Others have a right to speak out against such nutjobbery, and there are ample alternative charities available with whom backwater, 16th-century superstition and bigotry is not part of a package deal.
People are entitled to hate like savage little bile-belching barbarians. The rest of us are equally entitled not to participate and to point out such nastiness where it rears its ugly head.
Taliban? I wasn’t aware that the Taliban was a church or charitable organization. My ignorance is showing. I still don’t know what the Intertube is…;)
Interesting article, there were a lot of things I didn’t know and are making me think. Even more interesting, as usual, are all the comments. I can’t believe the stupidity on BOTH sides, but maybe I shouldn’t be surprised.
An article series I’d be much more interested and inclined to follow is a series on national charities that can be alternatives to donating to SA, RC, etc. Might be more in tune with the holiday spirit, no?
Be warned! This organization has moral integrity, and a clearly stated agenda on their website and literature to help you help the poor, widows and orphans.
I understand this is an opinion piece, but besides being an ignoble attempt to promote homosexuality by igniting a false sense of suspicion surrounding one of the most efficient and upstanding non-profit organizations in history… there is nothing approaching a serious criticism presented.
Ummm… Good! I support them 100%
So here we go again. It’s okay to discriminate against gay people because we choose to, but what would these same responses be if the SA was discriminating against black people or the elderly? They would be considered to be like the KKK, but because it’s gay people, it’s okay. Wake up America! As long as we allow ANYONE to demonize gay people we will never have peace. As a gay man, I WANT christians to believe anyway they want. I just don’t want it crammed down my throat.
so, since the Salvation Army doesn’t approve of gay marriage, they don’t deserve money? They’re are a church after all so it’s not exactly surprising that they might preach something like that. I disagree with their stance on gay rights too… but big deal. I’m a big boy and I can believe what I want. Now what about all the good that they do?
All I know is that they repeatedly helped me when I needed it, when noone else would, including helping me clean up (repeatedly) and with legal stuff to get my kid back. They give people a free meal and place to stay when they have nowhere else, with almost no questions asked (even if they’re gay).
And they have operating expenses. They have very limited government funding; mostly private donations, and the Christmas Kettle is their main fundraiser of the whole year.
So yeah, I think they deserve a few dollars plus a few hours of my time ringing a bell with my son each year.
…
Don’t have change for the kettles? No problem! Text HOPE to 45678 to have a $5 donation added to your next cell bill. [Canada/USA Only]
Thank-you Rob for sharing your personal experiences with the Salvation Army. It is nice to hear that they do not discriminate when providing help to those in need.
[…] Why Salvation Army Doesn’t Deserve Your Money. Read more […]
Thank you to the author for informing the community about The Salvation Army. I would not invest in any charity that discriminates — the fact that it is based on “Christian” “morals” does not make sense why they come across as if it is a secular charity raising for ALL the poor and in need. I dislike charities who create dependency by treating only the symptoms and not the cause!
the fact that there are comments on this section by homophobic individuals who are in support of The Salvation Army just goes to show the hate such charities ignore and perpetuate. A charity that is “helping” the poor but worsening the experience of marginalized groups while at it. Sickening… and very NOT christ like… actually.
I haven’t seen, read, or heard any messages of hate coming from the Salvation Army. The Salvation Army’s mission statement is very clear on their web site. I have read a lot of posts from angry people on this page. Most of it is not very clear. You are free to give or not give to anyone.
Here’s the deal. I wasn’t aware that the Salvation Army was apart of a church or even considered a part of a church organization. I did not know they were involved in funding campaigns against rights for all people born in the United States.
Yes, they do a lot of good. I’m glad they do some good in the world when there are so many homeless and needy families, especially during these hard times. I, however, want equal rights under the law. I can and will find better charities and organizations who will use my money I donate to help the world. I do not want my money going to fund campaigns against American citizens who are not being treated fairly.
I am 23-years-old. I have a wonderful job. I live on my own, four states away from any family, and I attend college. I am openly gay with a boyfriend. I am not religious but I am spiritual. I am against bashing people with religious views because I know what it’s like being discriminated. I try to be objective in any case.
Now, leaving this article, I will do some research, verify whether what the article says is true and I will see what I can do to make the necessary decision to donate to a worthy cause that will not use my money to fund something against my rights. This is my right as a person and American citizen. Yes, there are millions of needy people out there. There is more than one charity out there capable of doing the job. The Salvation Army, however, is the most common charity.
My point is that you can believe whatever you want to believe. You can fund whomever you like also. However, do not claim to be a charity and become “uppity” by picking and choosing what toys are being donated (be happy you’re receiving the toys; they’re not dangerous toys; they’re not recalled toys; they’re toys), and then use the donations to fund political campaigns to deny American people their rights.
That is what the author wanted to point out. Yes, the Salvation Army does a ton of good. I’m glad they’re giving back what they’re putting out. What they’re putting out is a strong message declaring an obvious dislike to people different from them: gays. So, should we go back to using black people as slaves? Should we deny Latins rights simply because they’re a different color, even though they were born here? Should women stop voting because they’re meant to be in the kitchen or in bed giving birth? No.
You can fight and argue all you want, claiming being gay is different than being black, Latin, or a woman. It is different. But it’s the new hate. That’s the point. That’s what makes it the same as being black, Latin, or a woman. Decades ago, and not even that long ago, they were all denied their necessary, fundamental rights as American citizens. Gays are being denied their rights now. That’s the common link between those groups.
The fact that an organization is taking donations from all people who pass by, turning around and using that money to fund campaigns against gay American citizens is wrong.
So, the author of this article is letting us know what is happening to our money within the Salvation Army. Now that I know, I can stop donating to them. Now they you know, if you agree to their beliefs, you can donate to their cause. It doesn’t matter what good they do. I will find someone else who does the same good without having any effect towards me as a gay United States citizen.
The Salvation Army employs slave labor. That’s right. They force the homeless they take in to work for free 40+ hours a week.
Does room & board count?
$1253/month rent is highway robbery, and that is at minimum wage
Wow. I have totally never supported the Salvation Army before, but I think I’m going to now! That kind of wonderful, loving Christian attitude truly reminds me of Jesus during this holiday season, and how he himself told many stories of hate, segregation, and public belittlement of others based on race, gender, and sexual preference! Er…. wait… didn’t he do that? Actually, I’m really only finding stories concerning love, tolerance, and acceptance from Jesus at least… but I’m sure he still hated homosexuals, considering how he avoided people who had sex in an ungodly way. I mean…. at least… wait…. what about prostitutes? You mean Jesus invited a prostitute into his inner circle of trusted friends? Oh. Well…. at least he hated criminals. He definitely said to honor the laws of the country! So therefore as long as homosexual sex is against the law, then we definitely have to hate them according to Jesus! And he… wait, what? You mean he actually invited a convicted felon into paradise with him? One who was sentenced to death, and was actually in the process of being executed by the Roman State by crucifixion? While he himself was being crucified? It…. he…. um…. oh.
Let your local Donor Manager know how you would like the money you give to be spent. It will go into a restricted account.
The Salvation Army is a church, and recwives donations from it’s members specifically for the purposes of spreading the gospel.
You make aeveral accusations for which you do not provide links, and there are several obvious mistruth in your arcticle.
The most surprisinf part about this article is how many hits tripe like this can get.
Give ti The Salvation Army. The writee here is just a hard-hearted loser.
“…the Salvation Army goes so far as to say gay people shouldn’t be having sex.”
no they don’t. they say gay CHRISTIANS shouldn’t be having sex, which is biblical and OBVIOUS for most Christians. The Salvation Army is a private organization with its own moral code and set of beliefs, just like the Boy Scouts. They can do whatever they want.
/thread
The Salvos should chew on this little chestnut: “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent
bully.”—Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion (p. 51)
The Salvation Army believes in the New Testament. You are referring to the Torah.
Christianity promises eternal reward, regardless of behavior, as long as you believe. it’s a Hedonistic religion offering redemption for selfish and evil acts without even requiring the offender attempt to make things right with their victim and tacitly approving of unlimited destruction and infliction of suffering because those that suffer have “Eternity in Paradise” to look forward to.
I agree. I stopped giving to them a few years ago for the same reason. They are outside my favorite grocery store and I know the bellringers do not set policy. So I simply buy a $10 gift card for the grocery store and give it to the ringer. That way they can get a warm meal and a hot drink. And before anyone might complain- the store doesn’t sell cigarettes or alcohol. I give my money to our local food shelf, as the need continues to grow.
I was going to flame this, until I read it. You’re right, I can give my money to someone else.
How about choosing no charity at all: charity is a way for society to shirk its responsibility to construct a system of economic governance that assures all citizens a decent life and a chance to participate fully in all aspects of societal activity. Let’s not confuse generosity with charity, particularly where charity becomes a substitute for what was once the social safety net.
[…] Every time I sit down to write a post, I find myself surrounded in a virtual ocean of countless articles… it can be rather overwhelming, the state of the world today. Apparently, Santa is having his own economic crisis, while homeless LGBT youth abound the streets of LA—but don’t expect the Salvation Army to be of much help to them. […]
Yes, you should withhold your donations to an organization that for decades feeds people and gives the destitute some hope during the Christmas season because the doesn’t support gay rights. Why should the hungry get fed if homosexuals are denied the right to redefine the age-old concept of marriage to artificially enforce a social validity for themselves? The world is and always was such a happy and enlightened place, that it’s never needed the innovations of charity and compassion that Christianity has brought to the western world. Let the poor feed themselves on hollow progressive social agendas because this makes sense to me, an insane person out of touch with the bitter realities that all people face. Merry Christmas to you too, jerk.
The Salvation Army does wonderful work to shelter the poor and homeless. It’s name should trigger the thought that it might be a conservative Christian organization. You want me to avoid giving them money, which goes to keep some poor soul off the street, gives them a warm bed. Why? Because in 2004, they ALMOST closed ONE soup kitchen!!!!
I don’t support their anti-gay stance. But let’s face it: in these times of economic hardship, these organizations – many of which are conservative Christian organizations – do tremendous good. This is beyond politics, and beyond religious disputes. It is possible to help the needy, and still have backwards social views. Until Atheist organizations show a willingness and ability to attract donations (that is, never), conservative Christians organizations are the ones who will be on the front lines helping the most.
i was raised fundamentalist, am now an episcopal, and fall on the “progressive christian” side. however, here’s my thoughts. the SA is *doing good*, they help people. i am also a social worker, so i see it day in & out. yes, they have theological views that i find objectionable. but, what’s better, a person saying “i’m progressive” and doing NOTHING to better our society and lives of those in need, OR a person who has views that don’t impact their service to those in need, even if those views are found by us to be reprehensible? it’s not as though when i take a client to the SA for free food or clothing or other needs they ask them to attend their meetings & become a member. i’ve had clients work for them as bell ringers who are far from meeting SA “standards”. bottom line, they help people. as a social worker, i know how needed that is. as a progressive, i say no, i don’t agree with them, but they’re doing a helluva lot more then self-righteous humbuggers who talk big talk & can’t even donate a buck to someone with nothing.
Had no idea, thanks for the info. Won’t be donating to them anytime soon, but unfortunately I can’t give up on their thrift stores!
Florida senator Jim Norman(R) was on the Salvation Army payroll for $95,000 a year plus a car. When it came out that he basically accepted an expensive house from one of his donors, it also came out about the Salvation Army. Neither Norman or the Salvation Army could describe his “weekend” duties for the Salvation Army. Wonder how many other conservative politicians they have on their payroll. Norman no longer works for the Salvation Army because they were afraid people would not donate to them if he was still on the payroll.
That is horrible. Now that is actually a reason why the Salvation Army doesn’t deserve your money. Are they local chapters or one big church?
I don’t understand how the gay community can demand understanding and acceptance from society and then, deny those very same things to those who simply disagree with their positions. It is… to me, symbolic of a spiteful culture that has failed to mature.
I have always given to the SA because they do good works. Just because they don’t immediately hop on the gay bandwagon, doesn’t change this.
[“I don’t understand how the gay community can demand understanding and acceptance from society and then, deny those very same things to those who simply disagree with their positions.”]
Because, you heartless monster, their “position” is simply to be treated like the human beings they are. Nothing more. Disagreeing with that position regarding any person or group of people automatically causes you to forfeit any right to expect decent people to understand and accept you.
Long-haired preachers come out every night,
Try to tell you what’s wrong and what’s right;
But when asked how ’bout something to eat
They will answer in voices so sweet
Chorus
You will eat, by and by,
In that glorious land above the sky;
Work and pray, live on hay,
You’ll get pie in the sky when you die
And the Starvation Army, they play,
And they sing and they clap and they pray,
Till they get all your coin on the drum,
Then they tell you when you’re on the bum
(Chorus)
Holy Rollers and Jumpers come out
And they holler, they jump and they shout
Give your money to Jesus, they say,
He will cure all diseases today
(Chorus)
If you fight hard for children and wife-
Try to get something good in this life-
You’re a sinner and bad man, they tell,
When you die you will sure go to hell.
(Chorus)
Workingmen of all countries, unite
Side by side we for freedom will fight
When the world and its wealth we have gained
To the grafters we’ll sing this refrain
Chorus (modified)
You will eat, by and by,
When you’ve learned how to cook and how to fry;
Chop some wood, ’twill do you good
Then you’ll eat in the sweet by and by
Joe Hill
It is extremely childish to disregard someones needs because of their sexuality. If God didn’t accept “gay people” he wouldn’t have created them. Why would he put people on this earth that have absoluely no chance in getting to heaven? He wouldn’t. So I recommend you crawl out of the box you’re living in, because gay people are just as good as straight people. You have no right to judge, and you have no right to criticize. It’s not your life to live.
The Salvation Army doesn’t believe that people with a homosexual orientation have no choice in getting to heaven. On their website they clearly make a distinction between homosexual orientation (which they acknowledge is not a sin) and a homosexual lifestyle.
Now, you may disagree with their opinions about homosexual lifestyles and oppose them for that, but don’t make statements about them (that they believe they have no chance of getting into heaven) is simply not true.
So “God” creates some people with strong urges to engage in acts which he has designated as sinful, just for his own amusement?
Does not sound like a being worthy of worship, scorn and contempt would be more appropriate
No, the devil created those strong urges. The temptation, the lies, the deceit, that comes from Satan, not God. That’s why Satan was cast down, sadly others choose to follow him
Yeah but god created the devil, so ultimately the buck stops with him.
Is it possible that it is a test?
[…] is the first of the 3-part series, Choose Another Charity. The first part, Why The Salvation Army Doesn’t Deserve Your Money, was published earlier this […]