Every 9.74 Days, Iraqi Civilians Experience September 11th
Interesting Statistical Comparisons
Every 9.74 days, there is an equivalent amount of casualties in Iraq & Afghanistan as September 11th.
There are 9.53 Virginia Tech shootings in Iraq & Afghanistan every day.
There is on average 305 daily civilian deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq.
In 14 days, as many Iraqi and Afghani civilians are killed as the entire amount of American military personnel killed since the invasion of Afghanistan in 2002 and the invasion of Iraq in 2003.
Note: There is some discrepancy between various sources on the amount of civilian casualties since the US-led invasion in Iraq and Afghanistan. A study in October of 2006 listed over 650,000 killed (see Washington Post article below) while other sources vary from over 1 million to just over 80,000 (see British-government funded Iraq Body Count below). I computed 400,000 Iraqi civilian fatalities and 45,000 Afghani civilian fatalities by averaging several sources, though I personally feel these are conservative estimates.
Update: The differing methodologies among these studies led to these wide variations. For example, the lowest figure from IBC is based solely on media reports of violent deaths, while the Lancet study surveyed random families in Iraq and includes non-violent war related deaths, such as those dead to lawlessness and collapsed infrastructure.
Raw Data: 400,000 Iraqi Civilian Deaths, 45,000 Afghani Deaths, 4,208 US Deaths in Iraq (3,972 of which are US armed forces and 236 private contractors), 415 US Deaths in Afghanistan, and 2,974 September 11th Deaths.
Sources: Deadly Hubris: A million Iraqis dead — for what? By Justin Raimondo. http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=163051
How Many Iraqis Have Really Died? By Diane Farsetta. http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/77992
Forgotten victims by Jonathan Steele, the Guardian. http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/comment/story/0,11447,718647,00.html
September 2007 ā More than 1,000,000 Iraqis murdered. Opinion Research Business, http://www.opinion.co.uk/Newsroom_details.aspx?NewsId=78.
Civilian Casualties in Afghanistan, Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_of_the_U.S._invasion_of_Afghanistan
Casualties of the Iraq War, Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_conflict_in_Iraq_since_2003
Casualties in Iraq: The Human Cost of Occupation, Antiwar. http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/
Study Claims Iraq’s ‘Excess’ Death Toll Has Reached 655,000 by David Brown, Washington Post. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/10/AR2006101001442.html
Iraq Body Count, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/.
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Related on PBH: Civilian Death Statistics in Afghanistan and Iraq
See Also: Iraqi civilian casualties rose 36 percent in February, Rescuing Our Iraqi Friends, Citizenship Applications From Veterans Backlogged, Progress: In the Slums of Fallujah, Itās The Iraq Top Torture Tune Rundown!, The War for the Surge, Afghan Poppy Production – Another Boom Year, Secrets and Lies, An inconvenient AFG truth, Moral Dilemma, Political Expedience, US Soldier Throws Puppy Off Cliff, and Speaking Of Iraqi Justice...
[tags]iraqi civilians, september 11, 9/11, civilian casualties, innocent, graphs, afghanistan, total fatalities, data, afghani, us military, army, invasion, middle east[/tags]
All i can say is that the surge is not working
Really?
And it was even worse under Saddam – 2 million dead.
Thank God our troops are there helping them now.
Oh, btw, the Lancet studies did not measure casualties, they measured excess deaths (i.e., if you got cancer and died, having nothing to do with the war, you are still counted as an excess death in both studies).
The comparable number for Saddam is close to 10 million.
What the hell do we care? We’re busy sucking our goddamned thumbs!
TallDave,
The comparable number for Saddam is close to 10 million. Bullshit…
By the way, Dave… any “comparable number” is “as comparable” to the “comparable #” of the weaponry supplied to Saddam by the good ol’ USofA. Including chemical and biological. You’d think you might at the least split the number and place the shared blood where it belongs…
Oh, and of course Russia gets a pass. I’m sure every single piece of hardware was American, and none of it was old Soviet and Eastern European. Lots of Car-15s and M16s in the Iraqi arsenal and no AK-47s at all.
“The comparable number for Saddam is close to 10 million.”
source? Or are “some people saying” that
In response to Tall Dave’s comment, I’m sure that the 90% of all Iraqi Christians who have been killed or exiled since the American invasion of Iraq appreciate our “help.” I’m sure that the millions of Iraqis who have fled their native country since the arrival of the Americans appreciate our “help.” I’m sure that the thousands of Iraqi translators who assisted Americans but have not been allowed to emigrate to the U. S. when their lives were threatened appreciate our “help.” I’m sure that the thousands of innocent Iraqis who were unjustly imprisoned, tortured, and in some cases killed by American mercenaries (such as those employed by Blackwater) and U. S. soldiers appreciate our “help.” I’m sure that the thousands of Iraqi children orphaned and/or maimed as a result of our bombing of their country appreciate our “help.” I’m sure that all Iraqis appreciate the fact that they have less electricity, fuel, and potable water now than they did under Saddam since we came to “help” them.
The ones who do truly appreciate the U. S. invasion and occupation of Iraq are 1. the Chinese government, which is loaning us money to continue this war, 2. the members of OPEC, who have seen all-time high oil prices since the Iraq oil fields cannot operate at full capacity, and 3. the Shiite government in Iran, which is delighted that America overthrew its natural enemy, the Sunni Saddam Hussein, and which is delighted that now a friendly Shiite government is installed in Iraq.
George you forgot about all the widows and children who now have to prostitute themselves to be able to feed their children. Widows because their husbands or male family members were killed in this occupation. How about the missing thousands of women and children who have been kidnapped and sold into slavery or taken elsewhere to be prostituted out? Or the ones who are sold into prostitution by family members because they have no other way to make money? None of their deaths are in the body counts.
I do know a person in the Shiite government there, they’re not happy either. They want the Americans gone but know there will be a horrible surge and massive civil war. Most of the citizens there are the same way. It’s a lose-lose situation. If the occupation forces stay, hatred grows; if they leave things blow up civilly.
They want PEACE! Not many in the west comprehend this kind of terror on a daily basis. Imagine your home being riddled with bullets DAILY or loosing your family members while they were at the market getting food. Picture having to sleep on the roof of your home in the summer because you only get 10 minutes of electricity a day and the temperature is well above 110F at night.
These war torn countries are ripped apart and will take generations to heal. THIS is the ‘help’ they’ve received by the US Government butting into things that were NOT their business. BTW, I am an American. No longer ‘proud’ to be one. I’m ashamed to be a part of this nation represented by an administration such as this. Thanks a LOT GW! You’ve done a horrible job!
To the compiler of the data, great job! TY for putting something like this together for a good perspective of the death tolls.
I am not proud of my country’s actions in causing and perpetuating this war. Our great nation has lost so much respect in the international community due to horrible foreign policy, and something must be done.
If we elect John McCain – it will be more of the same – only worse.
There is a story about John St. McCainās treatment of the Navajo people in Arizona. The UN Commission on Human Rights actually investigated this mess and said he (John McCain) was primarily responsible for the human rights abuses against the Navajo people.
I wish some of the big bloggers would pay attention to this story – seems McCain and cronies have a blackout in the MSM on this. Everyone in the world knows about it except us here in the US. McCain is running for President. And this is how he treats people when they are in the way of his āfriendsā the big coal company Peabody Coal?
http://www.cain2008.org/
Go see for yourself. The site contains video of conditions – including children with birth defects from having to live in a radioactive toxic waste dump where McCain and his cronies put them – at taxpayer expense. There are also links to the UN reports on this site too.
Forced relocation, use of scarce water resources to āfloatā coal in a flume 200 miles away. Half a billion of taxpayer funds to take away land without due process. Confiscation of the Navajo sheep herds. Poisoning of the water both animals and people now have to drink since the wells are dry. Living in a radioactive dump/spill site. Peopleās houses are falling down from the mine blasting – yet they are forbidden to build new ones. Beaten, mysterious accidental deaths, threats. Birth defects at double the rate of the rest of the population. Sacred sites and burial grounds destroyed. Peabody has no EPA permits for the coal flume. No environmental impact reports for the mining operation. Forged signatures on documents giving away the peoples civil rights. And their land. Itās all there. My brain is not creative enough to make all this crap up.
If you care at all, go to http://blackmesais.org/ and help out any way you can.
More should be done to specify the causes of death … those responsible, verifiable things. If terrorists bomb civilian targets, that ought to be specified in the casualty count. This is the crux of the issue it seems. Many people react emotionally to these numbers since there is very little in terms of breaking them down. It’s obvious that the person who designed the poll intended a specific, emotional, anti-US (rather than anti-terrorist) response to them. Just my opinion. American military men are not murderers – if there is evidence of rogue violence against civilian targets, by all means point it out.
The war in Iraq is a big issue on which many Americans are dissatisfied with their government’s performance. Before the war, many Americans protested it, during the war many Americans continued to protest it, and even now–when the media is busy with the seemingly endless presidential race–Americans are protesting the war. If the American people were given direct control over their country in a massively collaborative system of self governance – we would be able to pool our collective knowledge and research to actually solve big problems like this.
Supbelry illuminating data here, thanks!
what is this? where is your source, this website is not a .gov, dont believe it! garbage on the internet
FAKE!
just because it’s not government-sanctioned does not mean it’s untrue. actually, i’m more inclined to believe just about anyone but the u.s. government. they’re the liars and the cheaters.
What’s wrong with you people? you see something that you don’t like about your country and you just claim its FAKE? well its not! and even if the reason of death is not specified, even if some of them are dying from cancer, im sure not all of them are. this is not just a difference of 100 or 1000 people. its way more than that! do you remember how shocked, heart broken and upset you were when 9/11 happened? so imagine how people in Iraq feel EVERY SINGLE DAY of their lives! don’t be such biased heartless people, have some sympathy. Arabs are humans. they are not all terrorists! So when you see something like this, dont blame it on Arab terrorist suicide bombers! because apparantly that’s all you do. there’s a bomb somewhere and its an Arab terrorist, and then you turn all arabs into terrorists! PLEASE stop acting so ignorant!
im sorry for making these generalizations, im sure not everyone is like this, but the sad truth is that the majority..is.
You can add to this all the people who died in Iraq thanks to the long, LONG economic sanctions (aka silent genocide).
Who cares how many civilians die, as long as we get that oil. It is our destiny to steal from every country in the world, just as we have for over 200 years now. That is why we are so prosperous. That is the Capitalist American way. We are the special chosen ones, and are better than anyone else. We know this to be true. Just ask us. All rights only apply to us. No one else is good enough. We are the modern day Nazi’s, and if other Country’s don’t like it, we will “Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran” till they do.
Pretty funny reading most of your blurbs. Ive been to Iraq and have unfortunately killed Iraqi people. Ive seen horrible things that movies cannot replicate. I have to live with these horrible things every day for the rest of my life. However, I have fond memories that I will treasure for eternity. I helped Iraqi civilians with water projects, providing them with clean drinking water. I helped to provide security during the very first democratic election in Iraq. I helped open up 12 elementary schools. You dont hear about these things sitting in your Lazy Boy in your warm clean home, watching CNN. The media doesnt care about the good things, only the bad. I agree that there are bad things going on in Iraq. There are bad things going on all over the world. Does the good out wheigh the bad? In my opinion, yes. I challenge you to do some research on your own. Stop soaking up all the stories blown out of proportion on the news and search for real facts. Try not to speculate what its like there. Find someone on the internet that lives in Iraq and ask there opinion. I can honestly tell you. Iraq is the only place that my efforts felt truly appreciated.
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell~
Finally, I get to the bottom of this page and find the gem among the ignorant left-wing agenda posts being vomited up here. Been There, I am soon to have a brother-in-law who is a captain in the marines and served 2 tours of duty in Iraq and he shares much of your sentiment. He admits that the killing is regrettable, but necessary, not to mention scary as hell for all of our service men who stand out like a sore thumb among the Iraqi civilians while the people they fight walk the streets anonymously, only revealing themselves as they run from a just detonation IED or pull an AK from their robes (sorry I don’t know what their clothes are called.) To to idiot who thinks we’re there to “steal Iraq’s oil” that’s just shows how ill-informed you are. Oil is a global market commodity, it’s prices are determined by global supply and demand. Now and even before the invasion, very little of our oil came from Iraq itself, most of it coming from South America, Saudi Arabia, or our own resources due to transportation costs. I admit I may have some details wrong, its been a while since I took the class on the Middle East Economy but the gyst is the same. Lastly, stop acting like these huge numbers of Iraqi dead are due to wild American soldiers running around bombing and shooting at anything they see. Many of them are Iraqis killing their own for attempting to help coalition forces and attempting to prop up their fragile new government. Rebuilding an entire country is a process that takes decades, look at Germany or Japan after WWII, it took them nearly a quarter century to get back on their feet and they already had a basis in industrial and political development before the end of the war. Have a little patience and please don’t allow these numbers to scare us into losing support for our troops and causing all of the Iraqi and American fallen to have died in vain by regressing into a massive civil war. Please pray for our leaders, our troops, and most importantly that the peace-loving Iraqis who want to live in a free society get their wish and provide an example that not all is lost in the Middle East.
And please SpecialK, tell me that was just an inappropriate attempt at humor and that you don’t actually believe that we are “the new Nazis”. If you do believe that, it is the most ignorant rant I have ever read in my life, get an education.
I just want to know where the number of Afghani and Iraqi insurgents deaths are. Rhetorical question. Since we are not fighting these countries military and instead fighting extremist civilian groups they are considered civilians in this poll. Don’t get me wrong I am against this war as much as the next guy and I’m sure my life is more affected by it than those who actually wrote this.
Cordially
Perez X
US Army Infantry
I think we should just bomb all the sandniggers over there and be done with it. Drop the bomb, drill through the glass and take the oil. Fuck Iraq, Iran and anything with anistan in the the name. Let their beloved alah and 70 virgins sort it out.
Are some of you guys actually stupid enough to think that the Iraqi’s lives will be better if we leave Iraq. Fools. As soon as we leave the shit will hit the fan and it will be worse than it ever was. Then you Liberals will look dumb as fuck. BTW I am a moderate (the best way to be, cause you don’t blindly follow what either side says, you hear both sides and make up your own mind)
I completely agree with Thanks Been There. I am a 23 year old female living in NYC and I am continually shocked by the ignorance of my peers and even those much older than me. It seems that this blind hatred of America is a fade, right up there with “skinny jeans.” No one takes the time to THINK about the world we live in. People like to speak in platitudes about how war is bad, and hybrid cars are great, and it would great if “we could all get along” because it sounds good and great. But no one proposes realistic solutions. No one wants to confront a difficult situation and try to solve it. Instead people spout fluffy sounding nonsense that cannot possibly work in the real world. They point fingers and try to distance themselves from anything that could bring blame their way. America is the world super power and it is a tricky situation to be in, but to compare us with Nazi Germany, or a colonizing power house is ridiculous. I love living in America and thank God everyday that I don’t have to worry about running from gun fire, hoping my significant other comes home every night, or worrying about where I will find my next meal. Everyone needs to be a little more thankful. The least we can do is hope that the rest of the world can achieve that quality of life.
Its good to see fellow soldiers get on here and explain whats really going on, I hate to see so many people blinded by the news media and what they want you to here. The media is going to play whatever makes news and brings more people to the tube. Generally speaking no one wants to see the schools going up, or the water treatment plants being errected. They dont want to watch a program about how great the democratic elections are going or how the Iraqi people are being presented with more right’s than they ever have had the opportunity to experience. Im headed back over soon and I would stay as long as I need to, to see the lives of a nation changed.
~PFC Anon
You drive your hybrids,because men and women with honor, and guns,make it easy.You sleep in soft beds, in your masterbedroom, because men and women, wth honor, and guns, make it easy.You walk your dogs,carying a pooper scooper, not a machine gun, because men and women, with honor and guns make it easy. god bless our troops and ALL they do
As a European coming across this website,It is refreshing to hear about Americans actually questioning and debating their “elected” leaders foreign policies..There is an image in the rest of the world,of the 80% of Americans not owning a passport and knowing nothing of what happens outside their state.
But one thing that really irritates me is the image/preception in your media of U.S military personell “defending their country” in Iraq or Afghanistan.
They are one of the armies of occupation,rightly or wrongly and the solution/goal here is to help restructure a country blown apart by violence and military campaigns over the last 30 years! Whoever does it…!!!
Sadly though,I feel this occupation will go on for a long time yet as the Iraqis are clearly unable to govern themselves peacefully…
God Bless all military personell risking their lives in an attempt to help others rebuild and restructure.But I fear for Americans everywhere led by a government whose interests are driven by “big buisness” only and lets face it war is good for “Big Buisness”..!
hey, mbkliv
GO fuck yourself. You’re a EUROPEAN, we don’t care about your ass or your union. You and canada only try and meddle in the affairs of the best goddamn country on THE ENTIRE PLANET. We elected our leaders, and we deal with them. WE don’t hassle you when Tony Blair acts like a LAPDOG to America, we don’t jump in on France when they try and elect a SOCIALIST. And you better STAY THE FUCK out of our political process. Your nations haven’t done SHIT in these wars and you’re sucking down as much crude oil as THE REST OF US. Oh, wait, that’s right…you guys fuck over AFRICA. But again…we leave you be. You guys can’t handle arab IMMIGRATION, and you turn your noses up at us.
CHINA has some of the WORST human rights abuses, meddling practices, NO labor laws, NO pollution controls, NO food and product safety standards. NOTHING. It is probably the WORST run superpower in the world right now. And what do you do?
You sit there in your little fucking villages in your tame little landscapes eating your PUSSY ASS cheese and wine BITCHING about how America is having a hard time copint with difficult decisions.
WELL IT’S EASY AS SHIT TO SIT THERE AND BE NEGATIVE when the nations of Europe only play along and follow our lead. YOU are guilty too.
Oh, and you best not forget Germany. WE stopped their asses cold when Europe screwed them at the close of WWI. You brought that whirlwind of EVIL upon yourself, and we saved your sorry arrogant asses.
NO democratic nation gets it right all the fucking time, but we are doing damn good for our first 200 years. How about you guys GROW SOME REAL MAN BALLS and deal with the countries that are causing the problems, rather than bitching at the nations that are making an attempt.
FUCK You for sitting there on your internets (THAT AMERICA FUCKING DEVELOPED) saying “you’re doing it wrong.”
America’s version of Proportional Response at work. We suck.
While America developed the Internet, it was Europe that developed the Web.
Also, these figures do not include insurgents that are killed. These are only innocents that have been killed. While I commend the bravery of those who fight for America, to say that Iraq is better off now than before we invaded is wishful thinking.
Iraq is a clusterfuck now, and will be even more of one when we leave. So what does that mean?
Do we stay in Iraq forever?
I take it the poster 3 comments up was turned down for a passport at some stage…!
America is going to be involved in Iraq for a long time yet and everyone needs to realise that pulling out now would be the worst thing for all concerned,(except those on active service out there!)…
and remember Everyone has a right to an opinion unles of course you happen to be on the voter purge roll in Florida,Georgia,Alabama or South Carolina. Cheers Jeb.
I honestly think we should pay attention to the flaws in our own country before we try to help somebody else. Sure, they had a horrible dictator who was killing tons of people, but it was really none of our business. I never really liked the war because it just seems kind of senseless. I really hope the ends justify the means.
I can’t stand reading morons who think we should stay in the Middle East because of ‘how bad’ it will be if we pull out, are you that Anti-American, or just that pro-Oil? Who gives a shit if they all kill each other when we pull out, thats there problem, meanwhile we have this ‘coalition’ that is supposed to help them, when all thats happening is our troops and their civilians getting senselessly killed, and billions of dollars are getting pumped into out ‘Defense’ fund for this? why don’t we get our troops home and safe and worry about pulling ourselves out of our own economic disaster first. And we aren’t safe in our little cozy houses because of this War, they aren’t out there defending our country and keeping us safe, this is an offensive war…if you believe that, you are in idiot.
Senseless = DOUCHE BAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some of the people writing here are just fucking ignorant. are you serious when you say that the people in Iraq and Iran are better off with your troops killing them?!
you know what, instead of talking bullshit check this out:
http://hotzone.yahoo.com/b/hotzone/blogs68146
its first hand information from an AMERICAN reporter..
actually look through it, and let me know if u still manage to keep the same opinion.
How about putting it into context? Who actually killed those civilians? Once you have those numbers, stack the number killed by non-coalition forces on top of the 911 victims on your little chart, and you will have a VERY different perspective – you can label the new chart āreality checkā.
Check that off the list of things I was confsued about.
Nice graph, but perhaps it should have been in 24-bit color. The dithering is a bit too obvious.
Americans can rant all they want but there are thousands and thousands of dead innocents in Iraq and Afghanistan and I would assume that some of their relatives will come looking for payback eventually, when they do the rest of the world will not shed any tears for you we did on 9/11 you really deserve everything that happens to you.
I’m really ashamed of the role the UK played in all this, lets not forget that the UK followed the USA every step of the way, illegal wars, torture, genocide and throwing the lives of so many people away ours included.
Our leaders need to be tried for war crimes and we should leave whats left of Iraq as soon as possible.
First of all.. Ugh Makes Me So Mad, get on topic. I watched that entire video, it was about the Israel v. Hezbolla war and had nothing to do with Iraq. Yes, people there did say they hate America and blames only America for something that was being perpetrated by the Israelis and if you look into the root of it all was a successful smear campaign by Hezbolla. Follow the events, Hezbolla kidnaps two Israeli soldiers, refuses to release them (an act of war by anyone’s terms), only problem is, Hezbolla isn’t a nation, so Israel is forced to resort to places that are deemed Hezbolla concentrated areas and places where their rockets are coming from. Hezbolla intentionally hides in civilian areas. They don’t care how many of their own civilians die, as long as Israel and the United States comes out looking weaker. The root of all this is in these people’s refusal to give up their outdated practices of a male-autocracy, denying rights to females and foreigners.
To AMERICA!! I hope you’re not serious and you’re just some generally ignorant uber-Patriot who doesn’t know any better. A lot of my friends are those and they are basically good people, I just don’t discuss politics or foreign relations with them and try to discourage them from voting.
Last, to inflective, again, it is people like you who purport the false idea that the American soldiers are indiscriminately killing Iraqis and Afghanis. Again these huge civilian casualties are the combination of civilians killed by collateral damage, civilians killed by other Iraqi civilians,and Iraqi insurgents (who are civilians themselves) being killed by Americans. To actually believe that coalition forces are willfully committing genocide then you’re crazy and woefully uninformed. Also, this war was voted on and is supported by Congress, soo yea, not illegal.
Lastly, as one of the above posters said, I am a moderate, though slightly more on the conservative side only because they want to see this war out. Everyone, both right and left has a duty to themselves and this country if they are to have an opinion on its doings both globally and domestically to be informed. If you don’t know exactly where Iraq is, don’t be ashamed and hide it, go look it up. If you don’t know what Hezbolla is and want to find out their past, look it up in a book (I would say internet, but you’d have to go to a reputable source, there’s too much lies and bias on much of the internet). Please stay informed as best you can and make your best rational decision based on what you know.
BTW, was at the Yankees/Virginia Tech game yesterday. It was a great gesture by the Yankees and touching, we’re still thinking about all the victims and those hurt by the tragedy. Final Score: Yankees 11- VT- 0.. what did you expect?
Oh yea, everyone should read “The World is Flat” by Friedman (sp?) or buy it on CD and listen to it while driving like I did. I think it would open a lot of eyes on a lot of topics. It’s basically a history of the 21st Century and Globalization, very interesting.
Inflective, i completely agree with you. . .
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[…] * All told, there have been over 600,000 civilians dead in Iraq and 80,000 civilians dead in Afghanistan, which have been viewed as little more than modern-day Christian crusades by the predominately Muslim victims [source] […]
This is so flawed it is not even worth argument.
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[…] been viewed as little more than modern-day Christian crusades by the predominately Muslim victims [source] And yet there has been a complete unwillingness to brand what a significant portion of Americans […]
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